Andre Thornton

Andre Thornton was a first baseman and designated hitter who hit 253 home runs in the 70s and 80s, playing mostly for the Indians but originally for the Cubs. He is both the best and the best-documented player to randomly pop up so far; he has an excellent biography at sabr.org as well as a pretty decent Wikipedia page, so there’s no point in me attempting anything major here.

Andre was born in Alabama, but his family moved to Pennsylvania when he was a child. After graduating from high school in 1967 he was signed by the Phillies. He spent six years in the minors, gradually improving as a hitter and moving from the Phillies organization to the Braves to the Cubs, for whom he made his major league debut in 1973. He had an excellent year in 1975, hitting .293/.428/.516 with 18 home runs in 372 at-bats, and 88 walks. In May of 1976 he was traded to the Expos; he hit poorly both before and after the trade, then was traded again, to the Indians, after the season. In his first three seasons in Cleveland he averaged 29 homers, 89 RBI and 84 walks, though his batting average fell off from the .260s to .233 in 1979. Meanwhile, after the ’77 season he and his family had been in an auto accident that killed his wife and one of their two children. This and his devout Christianity are the two personal things that I have always remembered about Andre.

Andre missed the entire 1980 season with a knee injury, and part of 1981 with a broken hand (before this point he had been mainly a first baseman, afterwards he was mainly a designated hitter). But in 1982 he came back big, with 32 homers and career highs with 116 RBI and 109 walks. In ’83 his power fell off, but in ’84 he was back to 33 home runs and 99 RBI. He was 35 years old by the end of the season and it was his last really good year; 1985 and 1986 were not up to his previous standards, and in 1987 he only played in 36 games and then retired. Thanks to playing mainly with the Cubs and Indians, he never played in the playoffs, let alone the World Series. In the years since he has been a successful entrepreneur and inspirational speaker.

https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/T/Pthora001.htm

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/thornan01.shtml

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?ID=18888

https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/8856996c

Eddie Johnson

Eddie Johnson was an outfielder whose major league career consisted of four games for the Washington Senators between September 26 and October 3, 1920. The internet thinks he was known primarily as Ed, but he was overwhelmingly called Eddie. Either way, it’s not an easy name to research.

Edwin “Eddie” Johnson was born in Morganfield, Kentucky, just across the Ohio River from both Indiana and Illinois, on March 31, 1899. His father, Richard, was a physician who died when Eddie was four years old. In the 1910 census Eddie lived on Morgan Street in Morganfield with his three older siblings and their mother, Ada, who took in boarders for an income; 22-year-old Elizabeth worked as a schoolteacher and 18-year-old Ronald did something that the census taker’s penmanship renders indecipherable. Eddie was a star athlete at Morganfield High, after which he played local semi-pro baseball. The 1920 census listed Ada with no occupation, Elizabeth still a schoolteacher, Ronald a drugstore clerk, and Eddie a dry goods clerk, while youngest sibling Eugenia had been replaced in the household by Ronald’s wife Winfred.

That same year, Eddie’s ballplaying got the attention of the Evansville Evas of the Class B Three-I League (Evansville, Indiana, being the nearest sizeable town to Morganfield). They signed him in July and made him the regular right fielder and number five hitter; he played in 47 games and hit .256 with very little power, but received raves seemingly inconsistent with the numbers. He was described as “the hitting fool,” “one of the most reliable hitters on the team,” the team’s “most dangerous slugger,” and as someone who “hit like a fiend,” while his outfield play was called “sensational.” At any rate, on September 2 he was sold to the Reading Coal Barons of the Class AA International League and told to report there at the end of the Three-I season. 

However, his meteoric rise became even more meteoric when, before he had reported to Reading, he was sold to the Washington Senators. One of Evansville’s three daily newspapers, the Courier & Press, reported on September 18:

JOHNSON SOLD TO WASHINGTON CLUB 

Deal Gives Every Appearance of Being One of Griffith’s Foxy Moves 

Eddie Johnson, Evansville’s scintillating right gardener, during the season just closed, has been purchased from the Reading International league club by the Washington Americans. 

Johnson has been ordered by Clark Griffith to report at the Hotel Ponchartrain, in Detroit, tomorrow morning and the probabilities are that the Kentucky boy will be immediately shoved into the line-up against the Tigers… 

President William J. Asplan, of the local club, received a telegram from Griffith last night in which he was urged to immediately get in touch with Eddie and have him report not later than tomorrow morning. 

Asplan reached Johnson over long distance last night and the former local player stated that he would leave Madisonville sometime today. 

In purchasing Johnson from John Hummel’s Coal Barons, Clark Griffith undoubtedly pulled one of those famous deals that has rightfully earned him the sobriquet of “Foxy Griff.” 

It is almost an even money bet that the Reading pilot never even as much as heard of Johnson, but that one of the Washington club’s scouts has probably slipped into Evansville unknown and unannounced, sized up Eddie and reported favorably on the player to Griffith. The old Fox then pulled the wires on Hummel and had the International league reinsman put the deal over. 

Griffith with this arrangement no doubt saved the Washington club money as Hummel was able to purchase the player at a price that was just about one-half as much as would have been asked by the local club had they known a big-league team was angling for their star player.

Eddie did not in fact play in Detroit, instead making his debut on September 26 against the Yankees at the Polo Grounds, starting in right and going one-for-four. Then he started both games of a doubleheader at Philadelphia on October 2, going one-for-five with three walks. His major league career came to a close the next day, again against the Athletics but at home, with another one-for-four game. On the plus side he finished with a .375 on-base percentage, but with a .231 slugging percentage and a .625 fielding percentage (three errors in eight chances).

In early 1921 it was announced that the Senators were sending Eddie to the Shreveport Gassers of the Class A Texas League for more seasoning. But sometime between March 21, when it was reported that he had left his home for Shreveport, and March 31, when it was reported that he would be back in the Three-I League, playing for the Bloomington Bloomers, things changed. On April 13 the Rock Island Argus and Daily Union reported:

Eddie Johnson, star outfielder of the Evansville club last season and a member of the Washington Americans southern training party this spring, treated the big bunch of rail birds to a speedy exhibition of shagging flies and clouted the old apple in mid-season form. The youthful fielder is in the pink of condition and is ready to take his place in the lineup on a moment’s notice. He is a powerful athlete for a youngster, and the fans, who were on hand yesterday, are confident that he is going to be a big asset in the Bloomer campaign this season.

As the season progressed it sounded like he was doing well (there were many accounts of spectacular catches, as there will continue to be throughout his career) and was popular with the fans, until July 16, when the Rockford Daily Register-Gazette reported:

Joe Dunn is working a great shakeup in the Bloomington camp. He has purchased Outfielder Bratchi, of the Chattanooga club of the Southern Association, to replace Right Fielder Eddie Johnson, whose fielding of late has been pitiful…Outfielder Johnson will be turned back to the Washington American league club.

And the same day, the Evansville Journal said “Johnson’s fielding has been pitiful on this trip and up until yesterday he has been absolutely helpless with the bat. He has lost confidence in himself, and will probably go to a lower classification for more seasoning.” But somehow he stayed with Bloomington and continued to play right field, though he was dropped to eighth in the order temporarily, finishing the year in the sixth spot. I don’t know what his hitting stats were like as of mid-July, but at the end of the season they looked pretty respectable (and a lot better than his 1920 Evansville numbers): 123 games, 434 at-bats, and a .297 average with 16 doubles, 12 triples and one home run.

For 1922 the Senators sent Eddie to the Norfolk Tars of the Virginia League, also Class B, where he played mostly right field and hit mostly sixth in the order. This stop does not appear on his Baseball Reference page, so I went through the newspaper box scores myself. If they’re correct, he started every one of Norfolk’s first 38 games, hitting .295 in 132 at-bats with 8 doubles, one triple, one homer, 8 stolen bases, a .402 slugging percentage and probably around a .390 on-base percentage (I had to guess at the number of walks). On June 8 the Senators moved him to the Columbia Comers of the Sally League, again Class B. Here he played more left field and tended to hit second; in 79 games and 279 at-bats he hit .280 with 13 doubles, five triples, and no homers. After the season the Columbia manager, Zinn Beck, announced he would not be returning to the Comers and soon afterward reached an agreement to manage the Greenville Spinners in the same league. One of his first moves was to purchase Eddie’s contract from the Senators.

On April 15, as spring training 1923 came to a close, the Charlotte Observer reported in their assessment of the Spinners that “The outfield will be protected by three ball hawks, all good hitters. Eddie Johnson, with Columbia last year, is playing left and is a dependable fielder, a fair hitter and a good lead off man.” The next day was opening day, and though Eddie was out of the lineup due to an injured leg, he hit a pinch-hit double. He was soon back in the lineup, but that was not his last injury of the season. On May 3 the Columbia Record ran the following story:

EDDIE JOHNSON IS RESTING VERY WELL; HAS BROKEN ANKLE 

Eddie Johnson, popular and flashy outfielder of the Greenville Sallie league team who was injured in Wednesday’s game with Columbia, was resting well at the Columbia hospital Thursday afternoon. 

Johnson in attempting to score collided with Catcher Chisholm of the Columbia team at the home plate and in some way broke the small bone in one of his ankles. It is thought that he attempted to slide in under the catcher and turned his foot. 

Johnson was one of the most popular players on the team with the Columbia fans, due to his work in the series. Although he robbed the Comers of several hits and helped to beat the Alcock crew with his stick work the fans were thrilled with his work. He played with Columbia last season, which adds to his popularity here. His accident cast somewhat of a gloom over an otherwise exciting afternoon.

The same paper, the next day:

Eddie Johnson Improving Now 

Eddie Johnson, left fielder for the Greenville Sallie league team, who was injured in Wednesday’s game, expects to be able to leave the Columbia hospital in a few days. It has developed that while the small bone in the ankle was broken that it knitted itself together and unless the unforeseen happens it will not have to be set. The foot will be put into a plaster cast when the swelling decreases to such an extent to make this possible. 

Johnson is cheerful and he expects to be able to play again in a short while.

He returned to the lineup on July 2. The only note I found about him the rest of the season was from July 12 and noted that he had come out of his hitting slump with a triple and two singles. He missed most of August, though I found no explanation, and ended up playing in only 48 games. He hit .269 with 7 doubles, 3 triples and no home runs in 156 at-bats, playing left field and generally hitting 5^th or 7^th in the order.

Eddie returned to the Spinners in 1924, still the left fielder, but now hitting leadoff. On June 20 he was purchased by the rival Asheville Tourists, where he usually played right field and hit 5^th. For the year he played in 117 games and hit .296 in 467 at-bats, with 25 doubles, 9 triples, 8 homers, 20 stolen bases, 51 walks and 21 sacrifice hits.

Back with Asheville in 1925, Eddie got hit with a pitch in practice that fractured his jaw, but apparently didn’t miss too much time. Soon he was the left fielder and leadoff hitter but wasn’t hitting much, and on May 11 when team rosters had to be cut to fourteen players, he and another player were suspended, which apparently meant something different back then—it seems to have been an “inactive with pay” list. At this point he was hitting .254 in 62 at-bats. Toward the end of the month he was back on the active roster, and was playing some third base in addition to left field. On June 18 it was again announced that he was being suspended; at this point he was hitting .237 in 131 at-bats, with eight doubles, one triple, one homer and only one stolen base. He was apparently released after this, and on July 2 he continued his tour of the Sally League by signing with the Macon Peaches, his fourth team in the league in four years. Macon split him between leadoff and the 5^th spot, mostly in left but occasionally in the other outfield positions, third base, and shortstop. Something about Macon seems to have agreed with him, and he hit close to .400 the rest of the way, ending up at .324 in 398 at-bats, while game stories often described him making spectacular catches.

In 1926 Eddie re-signed with Macon. A story in the Macon Telegraph during spring training said:

What Eddie Johnson did last year is not news. For over half the season he was the sensation of the league. Opposing pitchers learned to respect him and to walk him—with the result that he was walked almost as many times as any man in the circuit. At least, he had 44 free passes to his credit in 99 games. [Which would give him an on-base percentage of about .391.]

Eddie was the everyday left fielder in 1926, usually batting leadoff, and set career highs in games (147), at-bats (561), hits (185), extra base hits (46—29 doubles, 10 triples, 7 home runs), batting average (.330), and slugging percentage (.455). Along the way, he got Macon’s only hit of the game on May 4, and grounded into a triple play on May 12. On September 13, in an article on the players’ off-season plans, the Telegraph reported that “Eddie Johnson is a civil engineer and he is planning to go to Morganfield, Ky., for a visit with his relatives before going to work in Southern Indiana.”

In December it was reported that Evansville in the Three-I League was trying to buy Eddie back but that it was unlikely to happen. It didn’t, and he returned to the Peaches for 1927, playing left field and usually hitting third. On May 30 Macon lost its sixth straight game, and the next day there was an article in the Telegraph about how team president Roy Williams was promising a big shakeup. It read in part:

While he was raving and tearing his hair about Macon losing her fifth and sixth straight games yesterday, he received a telegram from Skipper Wilbur Good which read: 

“Get two outfielders at once.” 

Which might mean the passing of Eddie Johnson. For Eddie yesterday lost a ball in the sun, and that happened to cost us the ole’ ball game. 

Yes, it cost us the ball game.

Eddie was hitting .313 at this point, and previous game stories had raved about his fielding, so this seems like an overreaction. The Peaches’ losing streak reached eight, and was followed by an eight-game winning streak. After win number eight, the following appeared in the Telegraph:

Though Williams did not say so, it is understood that negotiations are under way for the sale of Eddie Johnson, as the arrival of Krehmeyer and the return of Fullis to the outfield will leave an extra outer gardener. Evansville, Ind., in the Three-Eye league desires the services of Johnson, and negotiations are under way with that outfit, it is said.

Four days later, the same newspaper reported “Eddie Johnson, the lad who has been the target of a set of rattle-tongues the past few days, proved his worth by making a wonderful catch of Mule Shirley’s hard high fly to left field.” Two weeks later, on June 28: “Eddie Johnson gave the knockers something else to think about when he went to bat in Macon’s half of the first. After Leach and Mann had proven easy outs Eddie dropped the ball into a coal car beyond right field fence for a home run that tied the count.” On July 2 he hit two homers in a doubleheader, giving him four for the season. Despite how close he apparently came to losing his job, he never did come out of the lineup, and he kept hitting third. On July 10 the red-hot Peaches were in third place and the Telegraph started reporting on how in-demand their players were:

With Wilbur Good bringing his team rapidly to the top in this Sally League race, the eyes of the baseball world are focusing on the Macon team. And it happens that in this Macon squad there are some mighty sweet young ball players. Lads that are bound to go to higher company next year… 

According to the “nibbles” coming from the higher clubs, these scouts have reported favorably on Macon’s stock of ivory. Particularly on Pat Wright, Chick Fullis and the veteran Climax Blethen. Eddie Johnson and Pete Mann have been boosted by a number of the spotters too, but the first mentioned trio is considered Macon’s prize lot.

The Peaches played about .500 ball the rest of the way, and ended up in fourth place in the eight-team league. Eddie’s stats were a close match to 1926—in one more game, he had 7 more at-bats, one more hit, two fewer doubles, two more triples, two more homers (a career high of 9), and had a batting average of .327 and slugging percentage of .465 (compared to .330 and .455 the year before).

The Macon Telegraph reported on January 6, 1928, that the Peaches had new owners who planned to make a clean sweep, on January 20 that Eddie was expected to remain in left field, though “several offers have been made for Johnson by other Class B clubs,” on March 14 that he had signed his Macon contract, and on March 28 that “Eddie Johnson is almost a cinch for the regular left field post. He may not be as brilliant as some others, but he is steady, tried and true. He has not hit under .300 for several years.”

Eddie started the season hitting third and playing left field. On May 9 he missed the game with a sore arm, and the next day he was placed on suspension to get the team under the player limit, just as in 1925. However, once he had spent the minimum seven days on the suspended list he was reactivated. He hit two home runs in an inning on May 29, but other than that was having an off year. On July 5 came this story in the Macon Telegraph:

EDDIE QUITS 

Eddie Johnson, outfielder of the Macon club, has voluntarily retired from baseball, Manager Wilbur Good announced last night. Inability to perform at the pace that has made him one of the most popular players on the Macon roster for the past four years was given as Johnson’s reason for retiring. 

Macon fans will hate to see Eddie out of the lineup, although his work this season has not been up to his usual standard. Johnson has been one of the most conscientious players on the club, always giving his best and making an effort to help his team win, Manager Good pointed out. 

Johnson intends returning to his home in Irving, Ky., to rest up for a while, he stated last night. His future in baseball depends on his ability to stage a comeback, he said. 

“It’s a great old game,” Eddie said. “A fellow has to be able to deliver the goods, or else he goes by the boards. Nobody knows better than I that a man cannot hit .250 and play the outfield. I like Macon, and have lots of friends here. Sometimes I’d like to come back.” 

That’s just like Eddie. He never blames the other fellow.

He had played in 65 games and had a .265 average in 223 at-bats. On July 14 the following appeared in the Telegraph:

ED JOHNSON GOES TO HOSPITAL HERE 

Eddie Johnson, former left fielder for the Macon baseball club, was admitted to the Macon hospital yesterday afternoon. Johnson was brought here from Morganfield, Ky., where he has been in ill health for some time. He recently retired voluntarily from baseball.

Then, three days later:

We learn that Eddie Johnson, who was entered at the Macon hospital several days ago for an operation, has undergone the ordeal and is still able to grin in that likeable way of his. Eddie’s friends will be glad to hear the news, too, for he is one of the most popular fellows who ever donned a Macon uniform, both with the men, and well, the ladies.

Apparently it was these health issues that had prompted the retirement, and apparently he improved, as on August 25 Manager Good announced that Eddie would be reinstated and would resume his place in left field. On the 27^th the Telegraph reported:

When the Peaches leave for Augusta this morning, they will have with them one Mr. Eddie Johnson, former leftfielder, who returns to the fold to again take up his duties in that garden. A telegram received last night notified Eddie that he was again a full-fledged Goodmen, and the popular young fellow had a grin from ear to ear. 

“Boy, I’ll be glad to get back in there,” he said last night.

Eddie was moved to the leadoff spot on his return and it agreed with him, as he hit .305 the rest of the way and raised his season average to .275, finishing with 14 doubles, 3 triples, and 7 homers in 305 at-bats, with 11 stolen bases and 43 walks. A September 9 article on the Peaches’ off-season plans said “Eddie Johnson: Plans to return to Morganfield, Ky., his home, and work during the winter as a surveyor.” On December 7 it was reported that he was on Macon’s reserve list, and on December 20 his mother died.

On February 24 it was reported that Eddie had signed a new Macon contract and was expected to be a regular, but on March 9 he was released after unsuccessful attempts to trade him away. He turned up back in the Three-I League, with the Quincy Indians, for whom he started the season leading off and playing center field. After the first 14 games he was hitting .216, and he disappeared from the lineup. The next mention I found of him was in the Macon Telegraph of June 4, where it was reported that “Selma of the Southeastern League has secured Eddie Johnson, former Macon outfielder, from Evansville of the Three-Eye league.” The Evansville part seems to have just been a mistake, as I didn’t find him in any Evansville box scores; the Southeastern was yet another Class B league. Eddie played center for the Cloverleafs, bouncing around in the batting order between first, third, fifth and sixth. In 88 games he hit .305 in 318 at-bats, with 16 doubles, six triples and one homer, 13 stolen bases and 39 walks, which would give him an on-base percentage around .381. On September 24, after the end of the season, the Macon Telegraph reported:

Another Ex-Peach to visit Macon recently was Eddie Johnson, who played outfield for Macon several seasons. Eddie had a good year with Selma of the Southeastern, playing under Zinn Beck, ex-Sally league pilot. Selma finished the last half in second place and was well up the ladder in the first half. Eddie stopped over to visit friends here while en route to Kentucky, where he holds the job of a civil engineer during the winter.

In 1930 Eddie returned to Selma. The June 19 issue of the Sporting News, in an article on Selma winning twelve straight to get back into the race, said “In the outfield, Eddie Johnston is the only fly chaser left from last year’s team. Eddie is a hustler, a fair hitter and is a mighty good man to have on any ball team.” (He was sometimes referred to as Johnston, especially while with Selma.) On August 29, the Macon Telegraph, an excellent source for baseball reporting in that era, pops up again with “Eddie Johnson, former Macon Outfielder, is leading off for Selma of the Southeastern and hitting fairly well, thank you.” Selma won the pennant and Eddie finished with a .309 average in 514 at-bats in 123 games, with 98 runs scored, 26 doubles, 6 triples, 3 homers, 21 stolen bases, 46 walks, a .401 slugging percentage and approximately a .366 on-base percentage.

That seems to have been the end of Eddie’s professional baseball career. The Southeastern League folded, and I find no sign of him playing anywhere else. We’ve seen little of his personal life so far, but on May 5 Jimmy Jones, in his column in the good old Macon Telegraph, reported:

The Morganfield, Ky., Advocate announces the marriage of Miss Eleanor Long of that burg to Eddie Johnson, who used to play the outfield for Macon and who performed with Selma that [last?] year…Eddie was quite a favorite here back yonder.

I feel like the lack of a mention of a current team confirms that he wasn’t on one.

Eddie and Eleanor settled in Sturgis, Kentucky, near Morganfield. In the 1940 census Eddie, now age 41, is listed as a retail supply store merchant and Eleanor, age 43, is a movie attendant. Also living with them are Edwin Jr., age four, Eleanor’s sister Elizabeth McBee, 41, and her daughter Carolyn, 11. Eddie worked 54 hours the previous week, and the answer is “yes” for both “On a farm?” and “Did this person receive income of $50 or more from sources other than money wages or salary?”

Eddie and Eleanor would sometimes get mentioned by the Sturgis correspondent to the Evansville Press. On December 11, 1938: “Mr. and Mrs. Edwin Johnson were in Evansville shopping.” April 6, 1941: “Garden Club Sets Meeting…Mrs. Edwin Johnson will be hostess to the Garden Club. Mrs. Davis Read will lead the program.” December 17, 1944: Miss Elizabeth Johnson. Morganfield, Ky., was the Sunday guest of her brother, Edwin Johnson.” December 1, 1946: Miss Carolyn McBee, student at the University of Kentucky, spent the weekend with her aunt and uncle, Mr. and Mrs. Edwin Johnson.” Then this appeared on May 25, 1947:

Fire in Sturgis Theater 

STURGIS, Ky., May 24—(Special)—Fire recently did about $1,000 damage to a projection machine in the Victory theater building. 

The fire started as the third reel of the feature was being shown. Occupants of the theater were told of the fire by manager Edwin Johnson and left the theater orderly.

On December 7 Edwin Jr. was listed on the sixth grade honor roll, and he would continue to show up there for the next several years (on the honor roll, that is, not the sixth grade honor roll). On October 1, 1949, there was a small ad saying that Edwin Johnson of Sturgis was selling three bowling alleys—call phone number 3 or 99. On November 3, 1952, sportswriter Bill Robertson’s column bore the headline “STURGIS STAR DOES ALL THINGS WELL” and read in part:

Edwin Johnson, Sturgis quarterback who tossed the pass to Don Heine that beat Mater Dei in the final 15 seconds Saturday night, is quite a boy down in Union County…In addition to directing Coach Ralph Horning’s Split-T, he’s an excellent defensive player, is a pitcher on the Sturgis baseball team, a member of coach Harold Stubb’s varsity basketball team, an honor student, a talented musician and speaker, and was recently awarded the Eagle badge in scouting…He has another year to go, too…

Three days later Robertson included this in his column:

CHIP OFF THE OLD BLOCK 

William T. Harris, Morganfield attorney and sports enthusiast, writes;“I have just noticed in your column mention of Edwin Johnson of Sturgis. Ironically, the father of Edwin Johnson was Edwin Johnson, a graduate of Morganfield High School and one of its all-time great athletes. 

“He not only played on Morganfield teams which defeated Sturgis, but was quite a baseball player, too. I well remember a squib in the Evansville paper after a game with Central which mentioned that ‘Morganfield defeated Central on account of the pitching and hitting of Edwin Johnson.’ 

“This same Edwin Johnson afterwards played with Evansville’s Three-I League team and, when he first went to Evansville, had a peculiarity of taking off his hat when he made a hit or walked to first base. 

“It was on account of the efforts of this writer that Johnson went to Evansville and contacted the manager there and with whom he played for some time and afterwards played in the South on what I recollect was a Sally League team.” 

This must have been the Johnson who played with Evansville in 1920. He appeared in only 47 games that season and batted .253.

On July 4, 1975, the Press ran the following:

STURGIS—Edwin Johnson, 76, died at 8:20 a.m. yesterday at Union County Hospital in Morganfield. 

Surviving are his wife, Eleanor; a son, Edwin C. Jr. of Indian Lake, Fla.; a sister, Mrs. Eugenia Logan of McLean, Va.; and five grandchildren.

Eleanor passed away in 1994 at the age of 97.

https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/J/Pjohne104.htm
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsed01.shtml
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?ID=13358

Floyd Rayford

Floyd Rayford was a third baseman and catcher in the 1980s, mostly with the Baltimore Orioles, who was known as both “Honey Bear” and “Sugar Bear,” was a favorite of Earl Weaver, and received an unusual amount of attention for his body shape.

Floyd was born in Memphis on July 27, 1957, and at some point in his childhood his family moved to Los Angeles, where he starred in baseball at Manual Arts High School. In June of 1975, around the time of his high school graduation, he was drafted by the California Angels in the fourth round of the free agent draft. He signed with the Angels and was sent to Idaho Falls in the Rookie class Pioneer League, where he played third base and catcher as well as a little first base, outfield and shortstop. He hit .283 and, despite being listed as 5-foot-10, 190 pounds, stole 24 bases in 29 attempts in a 72-game season.

In 1976 the Angels moved Floyd up to Salinas in the Class A California League, where he was named the league’s all-star third baseman, also playing some at catcher and second base. He hit .273 and stole 17 bases in 20 attempts.

In April 1977 Floyd filled out a questionnaire that was sent out to minor league baseball players. Among other things, he mentioned his two nicknames, his off-season occupation of carpenter, and his hobbies, hunting and fishing. He began spring training that year on the roster of the El Paso Diablos of the Class AA Texas League, but the Angels were disappointed that he had gained weight over the off-season and sent him back to Salinas. He ended up back at El Paso, though, and the August 6 issue of the Sporting News included his first national attention, a feature article that both tells the story of his season and illustrates the nature of the media coverage over the course of his career:

Hungry Rayford is Real Handyman

Just pick an infield position and El Paso’s Floyd Rayford can play it. He’s an excellent utility man.

But Rayford is also pretty good with utensils. He’s as sharp with a knife and fork as he is with a glove. 

Potatoes, roast beef, desserts, second helpings—Rayford loves ‘em all. He doesn’t like being called a utility infielder, but the parent California Angels might have some different ideas. 

“What I’d really like to do is find a home at one position and stay there,” said Rayford. “Like maybe second base.” 

But Angel scouts ask, “Whoever heard of a 210-pound second baseman?” 

That’s the way the dialogue has been going in this Battle of the Bulge. 

Rayford has the ability to make both cooks and managers look good. At a squatty 5-9 and a plump 210 pounds, he might look more like a wrestler than a baseball player. 

But don’t let his appearances fool you. When regular second baseman Bob Slater was injured, Rayford took over in grand style. When third baseman Carney Lansford needed a rest, it was Rayford who filled in. And when shortstop Jim Anderson was hurting, Rayford hopped off the bench and took command. 

“As far as I’m concerned,” said Diablo Manager Bob Rodgers, “it’s great to have a guy like Floyd on the club. I wouldn’t be afraid to play him any place.” 

Except, perhaps, in front of the refrigerator. 

Opening refrigerator doors put the weight on Rayford in the first place. 

“Last winter I would go over to my girl friend’s house a lot and I guess I went to the frig too often,” said the 21-year-old Los Angeles resident. 

It was bad enough when Rayford reported to spring training 10 pounds overweight. But when he added another 10, that’s when the Angels became concerned. 

The Angels were so frustrated with him that they sent him to Salinas (California) instead of keeping him on the El Paso roster, Rayford figured he’d be with Salinas all season. 

But because of some major injury problems at El Paso, he was shipped to the Texas League club in early June. 

“I didn’t figure I’d be with El Paso long, so I left most of my clothes and my car in Salinas,” said Rayford. But his ability to fit in anywhere and his .345 batting average ruled out his return to Salinas. 

Originally a catcher, Rayford played third base most of the time with the California League team. 

“Since I’ve been moving around from one place to another with El Paso, I’ve been doing some thinking,” said the handyman. “You gotta look at the guys above you in the organization and see what chance you have. 

“Like next year I hope to be just a second baseman. I want to drop 25 pounds and become a power-hitting guy, like Joe Morgan.” 

Go right ahead, say the Angels. You can push ahead by pushing away from the refrigerator.

Between the two teams, in 1977 Floyd played 130 games and hit .282 with more walks and a lot more power than he had shown before; after hitting a total of seven home runs in his first two pro seasons he hit 17 in his third, and his slugging percentages went from .386 to .372 to .448. He scored 102 runs, drove in 99, and stole 13 bases despite the extra weight. Also, he hit significantly better while with El Paso than he had in the first part of the season at Salinas. The Angels had a much higher opinion of him at the end of the season than they had at the beginning, and in November they added him to the 40-man major league roster to prevent him from being drafted by another team.

During the 77-78 off-season Floyd played winter ball in Mexico, where Frank Robinson, recently fired by the Indians, was his manager. The Orioles placed him back in El Paso for 1978, and he spent the whole season there, playing mostly third base. He hit .313 in 126 games, and with another 17 homers and a career high of 36 doubles he had a slugging percentage of .501, though his walks and stolen bases were down. After the season he was again placed on the 40-man roster and he again played in Mexico, this time for John McNamara.

For 1979 Floyd was bumped up to the Salt Lake Gulls of the AAA Pacific Coast League. On June 5 the Angels, needing an outfielder, traded him and some cash to the Orioles for Larry Harlow; the Orioles didn’t really need anyone for their major league roster so they gave the Angels a list of minor leaguers they’d be willing to take, and Floyd was on it. (After the trade it was reported in various places that the Angels’ scouting report on him consisted of “In a word—fat.”) They then lent him back to the Gulls, where he finished the season. He again played mostly third, and hit .294 in 135 games with 13 homers, 18 steals, 98 runs, 80 RBI, and enough walks for a .360 OBP. On July 28 he sat out the last two innings of the game, the first innings he had missed all year, though a leg injury caused him to miss the last two weeks of the season and the league championship series, which the Gulls won.

In 1980 Floyd went to spring training with the Orioles, where Earl Weaver became enthusiastic about using him as a catcher, which he hadn’t played since 1976. On March 7 the Washington Evening Star reported:

Elrod Hendricks has been working with Floyd Rayford, trying to convert the third baseman to a catcher. There’s a great deal of debate about Rayford’s weight. He looks very stocky at 5 feet 9, 210 pounds, but Dr. Leonard Wallenstein, the team physician, says “He’s not fat, he’s just stocky and broad-boned.” “He could still stand to lose some of that rear end,” says [coach Frank] Robinson.

On March 29 the Sporting News ran another feature on Floyd:

Orioles Beef Up Opinion of Hefty Rookie Rayford 

He ain’t heavy, he’s a player.

That’s what the Baltimore Orioles are discovering about Floyd Rayford, easily the most pleasant surprise in the early weeks of spring training. At 5-10 and 205 pounds, Rayford looks like another fat guy who maybe should be carrying a football instead of trying to hit and catch a baseball. But looks are deceiving.

“I guess I don’t have an all-star body but I get the job done,” said Rayford. “When people first see me, they’re amazed I can be so quick. I may look fat but I prepare myself every year and I can iron-man it with anyone.” 

Indeed, Rayford has played in 125 and 135 games in the minors the last two years and played winter ball after each season. He boasts enough speed to have stolen 18 bases at Salt Lake City (Pacific Coast League) last year, when he also led the league's third basemen in fielding.

“I played third base the last two years but I was a catcher in high school and I caught maybe five games in Class A ball,” Rayford said. “Catching is really demanding but I try to relax at any position I play. I don’t mind where I play and I think I’ve got a chance to stick with Baltimore.”

Rayford is a longshot to stick, but the fact he can catch in addition to playing third and is a righthanded hitter with some power are factors in his favor. He just might cause Manager Earl Weaver to think seriously when he makes the final cuts. 

“I like what I’ve seen of him,” Weaver said. “He looks good at every position and he hasn’t made a mistake yet. As for his weight, it’s all relative.”

That’s the consensus of the Orioles’ staff. When the coaches look at Rayford, all they see is a piece of prime beef.

“If you think Floyd’s heavy, try running into him,” said coach Elrod Hendricks. “Floyd is just naturally big and there’s nothing you can do about it. I remember when Boog Powell was here. When he hit .300, it didn’t matter if he weighed 300 pounds, which he did. 

“I like the way Floyd handles himself and the way he swings a bat. He has a good head and he’s a hard worker. He learns fast and he listens; his ears are always cocked.”

Rayford was signed originally by the Angels and although he compiled good minor-league statistics, he ranked behind Carney Lansford as California’s third baseman of the future…

Floyd did stick, becoming the only newcomer on the Orioles’ opening-day roster. On April 27 he got his first major league hit on a bunt single down the third base line. 

He didn’t play much, though, and on May 7 he was sent to the Orioles’ AAA team, the Rochester Red Wings of the International League. He had an off year there, hitting .230 in 107 games, mostly at third base, with nine homers and a .278 OBP. 

At the end of August he was called back up to Baltimore as insurance in case Doug DeCinces needed back surgery; it was noted that he looked thinner than he had in April, Weaver saying “They don’t feed you so good in the minor leagues.” He only got into one game after his return, making a total of eight at the major league level for the year. The Orioles won 100 games but finished three games out of the playoffs; the top three teams in each division shared in the World Series money and the Oriole players voted Floyd $300. On October 25 he got married in Las Vegas, and then he played winter ball again.

When Floyd arrived for spring training in 1981, the Washington Evening Star reported that he “appears to have his weight problem under control.” Just before the season began he was sent back to Rochester, where he spent the year, though he only appeared in 96 games, split between catcher and third base. His hitting improved from 1980, though not to his 1977-79 level—he hit .248 with a .329 OBP and 11 homers, his slugging percentage rising from .357 to .424. He also spent a lot of time that season throwing extra batting practice to teammate Cal Ripken, Jr.

In 1982 Floyd made the Orioles’ opening day roster, as the backup third baseman to rookie Ripken, and the third-string catcher. He and Ripken were roommates on the road, and Cal would want to wrestle every morning. On May 29 he started at third while Ripken got a rest, his last rest for 2632 games, which eventually made Floyd the answer to a trivia question. On June 18 Jack Mann’s column in the Washington Times bore the headline “Rayford makes do playing a waiting game” and read in part:

"But Rayford has helped me a lot already,” Weaver said, “just by being here. I can make a lot of moves. When Ripken was having troubles and I was hitting for him, I knew I had a third baseman who could do the job. 

“And if I have to hit for Dempsey, I know I have a catcher if the second guy takes one on the finger. Hell, we were hiding Rayford last year so we wouldn’t lose him in the draft.” 

“You’re talking about some tough subjects,” Rayford said when talk of “hiding” was followed by mention of trading. “I’m glad to be here. You could get traded somewhere and still not play. I just keep a low profile, take it easy and try to be ready when I’m called on.”

On July 1 Weaver made the move he had been dying to make, informing the world (and the rest of the Orioles’ organization, which was opposed) that Cal Ripken was no longer a third baseman, he was now the everyday shortstop. The plan was that this would make Floyd Rayford the everyday third baseman, but that only lasted about a week before Floyd pulled a hamstring and missed two weeks. Weaver then moved second baseman Rich Dauer to third and previous shortstop Lenn Sakata back to his preferred position of second. When Floyd returned he had lost his regular job; the fact that his batting average at that point in the season was just .118 (though in only 34 at-bats) no doubt worked against him. In late July and early August he did get several starts at third against left-handed pitchers, but after that he was back to the bench. He spent a few days at the end of August back at Rochester due to roster needs, but was recalled when the rosters were expanded on September first. Floyd ended 1982 with a .132 batting average on seven hits (four singles, three homers) in 53 at-bats in 34 games, plus 3-for-12 in three games at Rochester, where he played second base. In eight of those major league games he was used as a pinch-runner, so apparently his weight wasn’t slowing him down much.

Earl Weaver retired at the end of the 1982 season and was replaced by Joe Altobelli, so Floyd had lost his biggest supporter, and he was sent to Rochester to start 1983. He got off to a great start, hitting .371 with a .433 OBP and .543 slugging percentage (the high slugging mark was not due to home runs, of which he had only two, but due to his 16 doubles) and 38 RBI in 140 at-bats in 42 games. His time was split between second base, third base, and catcher. On June 14 he was traded to St. Louis for a player to be named later; the Cardinals wanted him to temporarily fill the spot of Lonnie Smith. Floyd got another Sporting News article in the August 1 issue:

Rayford Supplies Heavy Hitting

Call it Rayford Madness. 

The St. Louis Cardinals’ quest for a righthanded hitter off the bench was assuaged by the performance of Floyd Rayford, who has an everyman sort of physique but authority in his bat… 

Rayford wondered where his career was going when the Orioles assigned him outright to Rochester this spring. 

“I started out doing real well at Rochester, and I thought maybe there would be another chance, but I thought the Cardinals would be the last team that would want me,” he said. “I never had an inkling it would be them.” 

Rayford said he hadn’t been trained to do anything but play baseball. “For a lot of guys, baseball’s all they’ve done,” he said. “But I would have found something to do. My wife just got into real estate and maybe she could have shown me something.” 

Cardinal scout Tim Thompson recommended Rayford. When Lonnie Smith went into a hospital for treatment of drug abuse and consequently was placed on the disabled list, Rayford filled his spot on the roster. 

At the time, it was presumed Rayford’s time with the Redbirds might be limited.“They were really honest with me,” Rayford said. “I was just there because Lonnie had gone on the DL and they said they didn’t know what to do with me after that. So, basically, I was ready for anything.” 

It appears that Rayford will remain on the roster the rest of the season. “He’s a slasher,” said [manager Whitey] Herzog. “I like him.”

Floyd was moved into a platoon at third with Ken Oberkfell, but his hitting trailed off and by the end of the season he was back on the bench. On August 31 the Cardinals sent Tito Landrum to the Orioles as the player to be named later in the trade for Floyd. Landrum played well off the bench for Baltimore the rest of the way and had the key hit in their playoff victory over the White Sox, while Floyd had the misfortune of playing for the 1983 World Champions in 1982 and the 1982 World Champions in 1983. During his time in St. Louis Floyd hit .212 (.278 OBP, .337 slugging) in 104 at-bats in 56 games.

During spring training 1984 Whitey Herzog said that he would try Floyd at catcher, on the recommendation of Earl Weaver and Orioles general manager Hank Peters. But at the end of March he and Tito Landrum switched teams again and Floyd was once again Baltimore property. He began the season back with Rochester, catching, and was 1-for-18 when the Orioles called him up after an injury to Dan Ford. He got off to a good start and his teammates started calling him “Rayfanella,” a reference to Roy Campanella. On June 21 the Richmond Times-Dispatch ran an article on him:

On part-time perch, master of even keel helps steer Orioles 

As good-luck charms go, Floyd Rayford has some appealing qualities. He’s a little bit chunky and a whole lot gregarious, a right jolly young elf who answers to the nickname “Sugar Bear.” He livens a baseball clubhouse. And he has no delusions of grandeur. He’s content to fill in wherever he’s needed. He won’t complain, doesn’t rock the boat. All in all, he’s nice to have around. 

Oh, yes, and one other thing: The guy can play. 

When the Baltimore Orioles beckoned Rayford from their Rochester farm club on April 19—they had a 2-10 record at the time—they probably weren’t expecting a great deal from him. Outfielder Dan Ford had just gone down with a knee injury, and the team needed a replacement on the roster. Enter Rayford, who loomed as a third-string catcher/third baseman and right-handed swinging pinch hitter… 

Now, however, as the Orioles begin a week-long homestead tonight against New York, Rayford has emerged as a key member of the team’s comeback cast. Baltimore was 36-19 since April 20 heading into last night’s outing at Boston. And Rayford’s versatility and bat are two significant ingredients in the turnaround. He’s batting .289 and has driven in 16 runs, tying him with John Lowenstein for fourth on the squad. Lowenstein generated his total in 159 at-bats, Rayford in 83. Even more remarkable is Rayford’s RBI-to-hits ratio: 16 RBI, 24 hits. 

Not surprisingly, Rayford’s stock and playing time have risen with his average. In the absence of Joe Nolan—another knee-injury, disabled-list casualty—he’s the Orioles No. 2 catcher behind Rick Dempsey. And his run-producing prowess recently prompted manager Joe Altobelli to start him at third base instead of Todd Cruz against left-handed pitchers. Rayford responded Tuesday with a 4-for-5 night at Boston… 

During the last six years, Rayford has bounced from organization to organization and between Triple-A and the majors. Traded from California to Baltimore in 1979, he rode the Rochester-to-Baltimore-to-Rochester shuttle until he was traded to St. Louis last June. He was leading the International League with a .361 average when the deal materialized. 

“I just took it in stride, like I take all things in stride,” he says. “Even when Baltimore traded me, I didn’t feel they didn’t want me.” 

He was right. And in March, when the Orioles were given the opportunity to purchase Rayford’s contract from St. Louis, they brought him back into the fold. Less than a month later, he was with the big club. When he strolled into the clubhouse and the Baltimore players spotted his familiar 5-10, 195-pound Pillsbury Doughboy frame, the response was immediate. And positive. And contagious. 

“He’s a very likeable kid,” says Oriole pitching coach Ray Miller. “He takes a lot of kidding, gives a lot, too. Everybody laughs when they see Rayford. He loosens things up around here.” 

More importantly, Rayford has delivered. Besides hitting well, he moved in at catcher during a critical moment—Nolan was out, and Dempsey was ailing with a sore shoulder—and performed admirably. The Orioles are 14-8 in games Rayford’s been behind the plate. They’ve been satisfied enough with his play not to bring in or deal for another catcher. 

“He’s excellent,” says Miller. “He has a real good set of hands, he’s agile, he blocks the ball, he has real good rapport with the pitchers, he’s got a good arm. We’ve got a couple of people who are tough to catch. Flanagan has a lot of movement on the ball. Davis has a 90-mile-per-hour fastball, and his stuff breaks sharply. And Rayford handles ‘em well.” 

Floyd played less often in the second half of the season, mainly at catcher, and he didn’t hit as well as he had earlier, ending up with a .256 batting average (.296 OB, .360 slugging) in 250 at-bats in 86 games.

Floyd opened 1985 with the Orioles as the backup catcher, playing very little third base, and was hitting .344 in mid-June in only 32 at-bats. Then Joe Altobelli was fired and Earl Weaver came out of retirement. On July 2 Floyd began playing third against left-handed pitchers, and on July 24 he became the everyday third baseman, catching occasionally as needed. On August 15 the Cleveland Plain Dealer ran a story with the headline “Sugar Bear gets job done at third,” which included:

…The Sugar Bear is a needler, the Orioles’ version of the class clown. 

He’s never seen without his black nylon sweat jacket—even yesterday when temperatures were hovering at 100 degrees—during batting and infield practice before the game. It is his security blanket… 

Weight is a touchy subject with Rayford. When the questions became too hot and heavy earlier this season from the Baltimore media, he took a vow of silence. 

Silence, though, doesn’t fit the Sugar Bear well. The incident was forgotten and Rayford is talking again…

1985 was Floyd’s best season in the majors. He hit .306 (.324 OB with just ten walks, .521 slugging) in 359 at-bats in 105 games, with 21 doubles and 18 home runs. He got divorced in mid-season, and years later said that “alimony can be a tremendous motivator.”

In spring training 1986 Floyd injured his left thumb and was put on the disabled list. He played a couple of games in Rochester in mid-April on a rehab assignment, then made his ’86 debut with the Orioles on April 21. He was not the same hitter he had been in 1985, which some blamed on his thumb and others on a weight gain, and he lost his regular third base job in late May, hitting .159. He went hitless between May 14 and June 6, by which point his average was down to .122, and on June 17 he was sent down to Rochester. He went back and forth between Rochester and Baltimore the rest of the year. On August 21 the Washington Times blamed his problems on coming back too soon from the thumb injury and on getting down on himself, while the next day it was reported that Oriole owner Edward Bennett Williams was blaming Eddie Murray’s poor off-season training habits for being a bad influence on Floyd. In early September Thomas Boswell’s Washington Post column on the Orioles’ failed season (they would finish in last place) included this passage:

Floyd Rayford, who should have been the fair-field, good-hit third baseman for years, has just about eaten himself out of a nice career and lives in the outhouse behind the team doghouse. How he could continue to gain weight over the summer is a source of endless rage to Peters and Williams.

Floyd finished 1986 hitting .176 (.231 OB, .310 slugging) in 210 at-bats with Baltimore and .285/.372/.453 in 137 at-bats with Rochester, playing mostly third base in both places. Weaver retired again after the season and was replaced by Cal Ripken, Sr. On December 6 syndicated columnist Tracy Ringolsby wrote “Baltimore infielder Floyd Rayford reports he has lost 13 pounds so far in his stay at a fat farm as part of his effort to get another shot with the Orioles.” On December 28 Ringolsby wrote “Floyd Rayford checked out of a fat farm having lost 20 pounds. Baltimore GM Hank Peters said he was impressed, and if Rayford drops 10 more pounds, the Orioles will make him a contract offer.” On March 19, 1987, the following appeared in the New Orleans Times-Picayune:

Baltimore hoping less of Rayford will produce more 

It was, Floyd Rayford said, a cleansing of the body and soul and a chance to save a career that had been one of the Baltimore Orioles’ most promising a year ago. 

At the Pritikin Center, he learned the joys of 6 a.m. walks and of breakfasts that included not eggs and bacon, but dried bagels, fruit and whole-grain cereals. 

He went to classes on nutrition, he did aerobic exercises and he talked to people with problems similar to his. He listened to lectures on founder Nathan Pritikin, who went on a strict no-fat, high-carbohydrate diet after being diagnosed as having leukemia. 

“I was in remission for 28 years,” Rayford said, shaking his head. 

Rayford, who has played third base, catcher and designated hitter, spent $4,300 for a two-week session that he describes as being the best and worst two weeks of his life. 

He was told to change some aspects of his life that may be unchangeable. He was raised in Los Angeles by a mother who cooked mounds of fried chicken, pork chops, pot roasts and barbecue. No more of that, he was told. 

The bottom line is that he weighed 244 pounds last October and is 214. His eventual goal is 208. 

“What hurt me is that someone wrote I was at a fat farm,” he said. “There were people weighing 300 pounds and people weighing 110 pounds. I didn’t consider it just a fat farm. I was there to lose weight, but also to learn about food.”

During the off-season the Orioles signed Terry Kennedy to catch and Ray Knight to play third base, but Floyd still made the team as Kennedy’s backup. In early May, at which point he had one hit (a homer) in 13 at-bats in five games, he was sent to Rochester. His agent objected to the timing—three days before he was to reach five years of major league service—but as it turned out it didn’t matter. He hit .277/.335/.518 with ten home runs in 48 games, as a catcher and designated hitter, then was called back up to Baltimore in mid-July. 

He played in 15 more games the rest of the season, all at catcher, ending up hitting .220/.250/.340 in 50 at-bats, and at the end of the year the Orioles released him.

In February 1988 Floyd was signed to a AAA contract by the White Sox, but was released in April. In mid-May the Orioles hired him to fill in as bullpen coach for Elrod Hendricks while Hendricks was filling in for manager Frank Robinson, who was out with a ruptured disc. Hendricks’ stint as manager turned out to be just one game, but Floyd was kept on the staff. For the 1989 season he was hired by the Phillies as a coach for the AAA Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Red Barons of the International League, a job he held for three seasons; he also played some each year, in 57, 19, and 5 games. During the 89-90 off-season he played for the St. Lucie Legends of the short-lived Senior Professional Baseball Association, a league for players 35 and over—except that catchers only had to be 32, which is how he was eligible.

For the 1992 season the Phillies moved Floyd to the Batavia Clippers of the NY-Penn League, level Short Season A. In 1996 he became the Clippers’ manager, finishing with a 42-33 record, 1.5 games out of first place. For 1997 he was a coach again, for the Piedmont Boll Weevils of the Class A South Atlantic League. In 1998 he moved to the Brewers’ organization, coaching for the Beloit Snappers of the Class A Midwest League, and in 1999 he was a coach in the Orioles’ organization for the Frederick Keys of the Class Advanced A Carolina League. In 2000 he went to the Twins’ organization, where he stayed for twelve years, moving from Quad City to Fort Myers to New Britain and then back to Rochester, no longer affiliated with the Orioles. After the 2011 season he and manager Tom Nieto were let go, and that seems to have ended Floyd’s professional baseball career. The latest information I have found is that he remarried in 2011 and is living in Fort Myers, Florida.

https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/R/Prayff001.htm

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rayfofl01.shtml

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?ID=16961